President Marlene Tromp and a former member of her inner circle stuck to a recurring point Thursday.

They both said they did not oust Big City Coffee from the Boise State University campus in October 2020, saying owner Sarah Fendley left campus voluntarily.

Tromp and Leslie Webb — Boise State’s former vice president for student affairs and enrollment management — spent almost seven hours on the witness stand in an Ada County courtroom Thursday. Fendley is pursuing a $10 million civil lawsuit, saying Boise State pushed her to close her campus coffee shop after students protested her vocal support of law enforcement.

Thursday marked the eighth day of the trial, which could enter its final day Friday. Alicia Estey, Boise State’s chief financial and operating officer and vice president for finance and operations, is expected to testify Friday morning. Webb and Estey are the two defendants in the case; Tromp and Boise State are not defendants.

Thursday’s testimony offered some new insights into Big City’s turbulent 42 days on the Boise State campus, and its short-lived shop at the university library — and put some previous testimony into new context.

‘We were sort of swirling around’

The pivotal day in Big City’s time on campus came on Oct. 22, 2020. As student opposition to Big City intensified, Fendley was called to campus late that afternoon for a meeting.

Webb attended the meeting. Tromp didn’t attend — but sent Estey, then her chief of staff.

Tromp said she believed Estey could help come up with a strategic resolution to the growing controversy.

That didn’t happen. In her testimony on Aug. 29, Fendley said the entire meeting felt like “an ambush.” Near the end of the meeting, Estey suggested it was best for the two parties to go their separate ways. “It was cold, it was final,” said Fendley.

After the meeting, Estey briefed Tromp and reported the sides were at an impasse. And Tromp said it was clear to her that, by that point, Fendley had decided to leave campus.

But Tromp adamantly testified that Fendley left on her own. “There was no effort to get rid of her.”

Webb offered a different point of view on the meeting’s outcome. She testified that she left the meeting early, unsure of Big City’s future on campus. “We were sort of swirling around,” she said.

She also said she missed an exchange between Fendley and Brian Holzworth, who was then a manager with Aramark, the contractor that oversaw all food vendors on campus. Holzworth suggested that Fendley could close for the fall semester and return in January. Fendley declined.

The midday closure

Michael Roe, Fendley’s attorney, pressed Tromp on one point from Oct. 22, 2020.

Early that afternoon, a few hours before the fateful meeting, Fendley abruptly closed the library coffee shop — saying the growing backlash on campus left her fearful for the safety of her student employees. “I just didn’t think it was wise … to have those kids out there not knowing what was really happening,” Fendley said in her testimony.

In an email to top Boise State officials, Fendley said she was only closing for the day. Roe said Tromp and other top administrators failed to get this message, and falsely assumed that Fendley had decided to close for good.

Tromp said she had her aides scrambling to get answers about the situation. But she defended her staff, and said it was a “reasonable assumption” to think Fendley was shuttering her shop for good.

“We knew that she was unhappy,” Tromp said. 

What did Big City ask for?

Thursday’s testimony also centered on another point of contention: Did Big City ask for any preferential treatment from Boise State?

In the Oct. 22, 2020 meeting, Fendley said she wanted the university to make a statement in support of Big City. According to a tape of portions of the meeting — recorded by Estey — Webb said Boise State would not do it.

In her testimony Thursday, Webb tried to offer a clarification. She said Boise State would not issue a statement that could be construed as favoring one political cause, such as the pro-law enforcement Thin Blue Line movement, over an opposing viewpoint.

And Webb suggested Fendley wanted more than a mere endorsement of her business: She said Fendley wanted a statement that was “bigger than Big City,” encompassing issues such as policing. (In her Aug. 29 testimony, Fendley said Boise State was never asked to issue an overarching pro-law enforcement statement.)

Webb and Tromp were consistent on one point, a centerpiece of the defense. They both said Big City expected the university to silence student opponents, compromising their First Amendment rights.

As she did on Wednesday, during the start of her testimony, Tromp again said that was something the university would not and could not do. 

‘The students don’t have power over me’

As a consumer, Webb said she was a “frequenter” of Big City’s Downtown location — often going there with family members, job applicants and co-workers.

But as the university’s administrator in charge of student affairs, Webb also spent considerable time in 2020 talking to students who were angered by Big City’s arrival on campus — and felt threatened by the shop’s political stance.

In cross-examination, Roe pressed Webb to explain why she let the students’ criticisms go unchallenged.

“My experience at Big City wasn’t negative, ever,” she said. “(But) I didn’t challenge (students) on their own experiences. … I was doing quite a bit of listening.”

But Webb also tried to debunk one of the plaintiff’s claims: the notion that students pressured Boise State administrators to oust Big City. “My client was sacrificed,” Roe said in opening arguments, “in order to appease a small group of student activists.”

Webb left Boise State shortly after the Big City dispute went public; she is now an administrator at the University of Montana. But as she met with student opponents in the fall of 2020, she said she described the Big City contract as a done deal — and said she never worried that this would cause repercussions for her. “The students don’t have power over me.” 

‘We no longer have an amicable parting’

On Oct. 25, 2020, a Sunday, Tromp got on the phone with Fendley and Kevin Holtry, Fendley’s then-fiance. Holtry, a former Boise police officer, was paralyzed when he was shot in the line of duty in 2016.

Tromp testified that the 15- to 20-minute call left her relieved. Fendley seemed to be looking to leave Boise State gracefully.

“If we were going to part, I wanted to part on good terms,” Tromp said. “We didn’t want it to be acrimonious.”

That harmony was short-lived.

During the call, Fendley and Holtry predicted their departure would spark a “high-intensity response” in the community, Tromp said. Both pledged that they would do nothing to stir up opposition, Tromp testified, but didn’t keep their word.

And Tromp said Boise State no longer has any interest in helping cover Big City’s “sunk costs,” the money lost on the short-lived campus shop.

Fendley, who pegged her losses at about $125,000, said Boise State never followed up.

Tromp, meanwhile, said Fendley never followed up with invoices. And reimbursement — which Tromp called a “gesture of generosity” — is off the table.

“We no longer have an amicable parting,” she said sternly.

Boise Dev and Idaho Education News have partnered for coverage of the Big City Coffee case, with senior reporters Margaret Carmel and Kevin Richert sharing court reporting duties. Check back  for continuing coverage.